Author: artefact_admin

It’s a rainy Saturday, and you decide to bake chocolate chip cookies with your son, Leo (age 10), who has ADHD, and your daughter, Anya (age 8), who does not. Initially, things go smoothly with the kids taking turns as they move through the steps of the recipe. At one point, though, you ask Anya to crack both of the eggs because Leo often misses the bowl with most of the yolk, and he loses it. Suddenly, it’s time for managing meltdowns. Leo starts yelling at her, and then at you, for not making sure things were fair. “Why didn’t you give me a chance?” he screams. “Leo,” you say gruffly, “Here, you add the flour. It’s not a big deal.” His face turns red: “She gets to do all of the good stuff.” Leo flips over the buttered cookie sheets and storms off to his room. Anna starts to cry and, to be honest, you’re feeling a bit teary yourself. In moments like this, what can you do to support both children and maintain your own composure?

Seeing ‘acting out’ behaviors from a different angle

When a child or a teen shows their distress, what they are sharing is just the tip of the iceberg. Whether you see crying, protesting, hitting, running away, shutting down or seething, these behaviors are all signals that something is going on underneath the surface. Our job is to try to learn what that is. Of course, behavior is behavior. When it’s unexpected, unkind or dysregulated, it’s often not acceptable. However, as parents, educators or counselors, our job is to look for clues at what kids are really trying to communicate.

Underneath that behavior is either: (1) a struggle to adapt to or accommodate to demands of a given situation or (2) an ineffective effort to express unmet needs and get them satisfied.

Learning what’s beneath the surface

For so many kids with ADHD, clear communication of what’s really going on for them is a challenge. Start with a HALT assessment (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired). Then, move on to uncover other needs. For instance, they may have a need to stay busy. This might be because their mind gets distracted easily or they dislike feeling bored. They may want what only they want because they can’t tolerate disappointment. Or, they may not know what they need, which is very uncomfortable, too. As tough as it might be in tense moments–our job as adults is to manage ourselves while distinguishing between (1) their intentional behaviors and (2) their physiological stress responses. Is this on purpose, or is this on neurological autopilot? Perhaps the emotional brain has perceived a threat or danger and reacted without having the thinking brain to modulate. With naturally weaker executive functioning skills, many kids with ADHD go to this neurological autopilot faster than their neurotypical peers. Of course, trigger warnings differ from person to person. This is tough in those high-octane moments because you may not know what has set off your child or teen.

Managing meltdowns from conflict to calm

Stress in the body doesn’t respond to punishments or rewards. Instead, the body needs calm responses to encourage and elicit settling down. This starts with a pause, calling a stop in the action, which is so very hard to do. Then, there’s acknowledging what is happening in real time, without blame. For example, how do you respond when Leo becomes activated and starts to yell? Ideally, your first response would be acknowledging his disappointment and frustration rather than redirecting him to the flour. That is because he experiences the redirection as you ignoring his feelings. In addition, one person’s emotional upset can have a cascading effect on other people. This is why co-regulation, maintaining your self-Control to keep your feelings in check, matters so much. The calmer that you can remain, the better the chances are that your child or teen will settle faster.

How conflict originates

Conflict generally occurs from a combination of how we try to attend to our needs and when we express them with blame, demands and aggression. In heated moments, it can be tough to remember that kids (and adults) would always prefer to regulate, if they could figure out how to do that. We can help our kids by shifting our perspectives and our words from “why can’t you” to “what about this is hard right now?” When people feel met where they are, and accepted even in moments of profound distress, it slows down the activation process and starts the process of healing.

Managing Meltdowns with the 4 R’s of Relationship Co-Regulation

Follow these 4 R’s of Relationship Co-Regulation to help your family cope with meltdowns and improve cooperation and accountability:

1. Reflect:

Reflect back what you hear them say without interpretations. “I hear that you wanted a chance with the eggs. Is that right?” Or, “I notice that you want things to be fair. Did I get that correct?”

2. Reframe:

Change a demand into a request. When your child says, “I want my bagel now,” ask them to restate that into a question. Instead of you commanding, “Set the table now for dinner,” try “It would be great if you would set the table now,” or “Would you please set the table now?” Become more mindful of your tone as well by practicing tone of voice (T.O.V.) awareness.

3. Respond:

When facing a problem to solve or a power struggle, respond with a solution inquiry from a WE perspective and brainstorm options. “How can we work together to deal with the dirty laundry on your bedroom floor today?” “What can we do about dishes that you left in the sink last night?” You invite their participation and their creative thinking.

4. Redirect:

This occurs when you choose one of those options you just brainstormed together. But, sometimes you just can’t find a decent solution. That’s okay. In those moments, it’s time for a pivot. Agree to set aside whatever isn’t working and move on to something else. Later, maybe even the next day, return to the issue and discuss it briefly. You don’t want to stir the whole thing up again, but rather, offer your compassion for their struggle, and decide if there is something to do at this point. 

Remembering and celebrating the positives

In the midst of the hardest moments, maintaining some type of positive connection with your child or teen is the ultimate goal, and sometimes the most challenging. Many kids with ADHD have a loud and active internal voice of criticism and negativity. Lean into their positive choices and cooperative behaviors by noticing and validating their efforts. Consider making a Practice-Makes-Progress Panel on your refrigerator, a bulletin board, or some empty wall space with Post-its detailing an effective choice. As reminders of past successes, these can act as cues for the future and nurture positive self-esteem, too.

Read more blog posts:

• When Kids with ADHD Have Oppositional Reactions: Moving past ‘No’ with the PAUSE program
• Dinnertime for the Family with ADHD: How to make family meals more enjoyable for all
• ADHD and Negativity: Why ADHD kids and teens say “No” and how to help them communicate

Watch on Dr. Saline’s YouTube Channel:

• Let it Go! When ADHD Kids Just Don’t Stop | ADHD Parenting Q&A

https://youtu.be/Mub5xU7f3Fs Learn more in Dr. Saline’s Store: https://drsharonsaline.com/product/defeating-the-worry-monster-a-parenting-webinar-for-parents-of-elementary-school-kids/ https://drsharonsaline.com/product/home-seminar/

Do you have a habit of saving old boxes in case you might need them at some point in the future? Or, perhaps you let your mail accumulate in a pile because you dread the sorting process or slam doors when you are angry? Some habits, like walking with the dog in the morning, wiping down counters before going to bed or laying out clothes for the next day, can be useful, and even good for you. Others, however, can hold you back and fuel unwanted clutter, chaos or unhealthy lifestyles. But, as the saying goes, old habits die hard. As much as you may want to change what you know doesn’t serve you, it can seem impossible–especially for adults with ADHD–to plan, initiate and follow through with making a much-needed shift. By focusing on one specific goal at a time, here’s how you can create new habits with ADHD.

Habits and ADHD: When they help and when they don’t

Habits are defined as acquired patterns of behavior that are regularly repeated until they become almost involuntary. Habits usually develop to help us lower stress or meet an emotional need such as reducing fear, sadness or hurt. They may serve us when we start them and then cease to be useful, but we still can’t seem to stop doing them. This is particularly tough for many adults with ADHD who struggle with executive functioning challenges such as organization, impulse control and focus. With a ‘Now/Not Now’ brain, the satisfaction of doing a habit in the moment can overtake rational thoughts of making a different choice or simply tolerating the discomfort of change.

The three elements of a habit

Habits consist of loops of three elements: the trigger, the behavior and the benefit.

1. The trigger:

Initially, there is a trigger. For example, perhaps you are feeling anxious about a work issue. Then you see an email from your boss after dinner that intensifies your worry, and you are now feeling uncomfortable.

2. The behavior:

What happens next is the routine. A behavior or a set of actions that is geared towards distracting you or making you feel better. You plop down on your sofa and proceed to watch four hours of television.

3. The benefit:

The resulting reward is that you are sufficiently engrossed in your entertainment and not thinking about your boss (the trigger), so the habit is now complete. However, there’s a downside to this habit: you stay up too late, struggle to wake up the next morning, and get to work late again.

How to prepare for new habits with ADHD

Changing a habit means targeting one of the three habit components: reacting differently to the trigger, choosing an alternative behavior to address the ensuing discomfort, or responding to the pull of the benefit/reward with a healthier option. In order to begin the process of changing a habit, you have to bring awareness to what it is and when you are engaging it. This is where mindfulness meets metacognition: you notice the habit, you observe the effect that it has on you (and others) and you reflect on what other options exist that would feel rewarding. Practice self-awareness in combination with self-evaluation: try to reflect on whatever beliefs you have about yourself or your life that are tied to the old habit – and without any judgment. Old habits are tough to break because they are familiar and easy to do. They can also promote safety from uncomfortable feelings, insecurity, irrational fears and/or self-criticism. Rather than letting shame or regret bring you down, practice self-compassion so you can move forward.

The 4 steps to creating new, effective habits

Step 1: Notice a habit

Noticing a habit without judgment is key towards changing it. Look around your life, and select one thing that you would like to change. Instead of telling yourself negative things about the habit, remember that it once served a purpose and now it doesn’t. That’s all. Then, look at how the habit is affecting you now. If you could wave a magic wand and change it, what would you do? What would you like to see replace it? This is your overarching goal.

Step 2: Be specific about your goals

Precision is what’s needed to alter habits. It’s not enough to say, “I want to be on time to things,” because it’s not specific enough. Ask yourself questions about your goal that can help you hone in on the details. For example:

• • What is one area of your life where being on time really matters and would make a difference?
  • How will you arrive at the destination?
  • How early do you want to arrive?

When you clarify what you want, it’s easier to make it happen.

Step 3: Break the goal down

Reduce your overarching goals into smaller parts that are manageable and achievable. Changing the whole aspect of an unwanted habit might be overwhelming and too difficult. Think in increments instead.

• • What is one part that you could start with?
  • Can you do this daily or weekly?
  • What type of support would assist you from a friend, loved one or colleague?

Write down your larger goal, its smaller components and your strategy to refer to it.

Step 4: Practice, and aim for improvement–not perfection

Practice makes progress. All too often, people who are trying to change a habit dismiss their efforts along the way and only value the completion of the goal. You will need to encourage yourself to keep going and kindly talk back to the part of you that is connected to the old habit. It’s struggling to let go until it can be very sure that the new replacement habit will address any underlying fear, sadness or deficiency beliefs. Embrace the challenge of sustained practice instead of aiming for perfection. And remember, mistakes foster growth. It’s natural and expected to stumble, regroup and try again.

Read more blog posts:

• ADHD and Self-Sabotage: 6 supportive strategies to help you feel more confident and reach more goals
• Creating an ADHD-Friendly Morning Routine with Your Family: Wake up to a smoother start
• New Year, New Habits, Same ADHD: How to plan for and maintain new habits together, as a family

Watch on Dr. Saline’s YouTube Channel:

• Daily Routine Tips for ADHD Adults: How to create + keep healthy habits

Handouts, Videos & More in Dr. Saline’s Store: https://drsharonsaline.com/product/harness-grit/ https://drsharonsaline.com/product/home-seminar/

When you live with ADHD, you live with the challenge of managing strong emotions. Whether you are a child, teen or adult, it can be tough to regulate how you process your feelings–psychologically, cognitively or behaviorally. The ADHD brain, with its ‘now/not now’ orientation, may not be attuned to feelings that are simmering under the surface until the pressure is too great, something brings them to awareness and the dam bursts. Flooding, a common experience for folks with ADHD, results from the combination of intense and usually overwhelming internal and external stimulation in a world that’s not designed for neurodivergent brains. Learning how to identify and respond to emotional triggers more intentionally will help you feel better about yourself, improve social relationships and increase productivity.

Big emotions are part of being human

Experiencing big emotions is a part of life. The oldest emotions—fear, anger, anxiety—developed to keep us safe by cueing us that there is something threatening our survival or social standing. Emotions help us create and store memories, build social networks and develop self-confidence. They are fundamentally integrated with memory, action and learning, and the brain attaches emotion to help us prioritize what’s needed to stay safe. Strong emotions highlight what’s important and cue us to pay attention to what’s happening in real time. They can also assist people with processing a painful past event.

The amgydala and the fight, flight or freeze response

Let’s look briefly at how the trigger system work in the brain and body. Reducing reactivity means understanding the “amygdala hijack” as a gateway for improving self-regulation (Goleman, D. (1995, 2005). Emotional Intelligence: Why it can matter more than IQ.” New York: Bantam Books).

Inside the emotional center of our brains (the limbic system) lies the amygdala. It acts as the brain’s alarm system, setting off the ‘fight, flight or freeze’ response. When the amygdala senses danger, real or imagined, it jumps into action and tells the rest of the brain and the body to run from danger or fight it. That’s when you feel a rush of adrenaline, a faster heartbeat and shorter breaths–a knee-jerk reaction within milliseconds of sensing a disturbance. When the amygdala becomes activated, the thinking brain (your prefrontal cortex) goes temporarily offline, and feelings rule the day.

Calming down emotional responses: Neurotypical brains vs. ADHD brains

In neurotypical brains, executive functioning skills help the amygdala calm down by engaging language to name the feelings instead of just experiencing them. This also helps people step back to more clearly assess the situation and find solutions. In ADHD brains, however, the executive functioning skills–that are already working hard to accomplish and maintain daily life tasks–struggle with the extra burden of effectively dealing with a rush of strong emotions. This means that you’ll often react more quickly and with volatility instead of responding with consideration.

Managing emotional triggers with ADHD

1. Learn to recognize emotional triggers with body awareness

One of the first steps toward improving emotional regulation and taming your triggers is to notice the physiological signs that the amygdala is gearing up. What are the physical symptoms that let you know something is askew? Increased heart rate, tense muscles, shallow breathing, perspiration or nausea are all signs that you are entering a fight, fight or freeze zone. It’s really important to distinguish if what’s setting you off is a real emergency or a perceived but not imminent danger. You may feel the pressing need to act, but that urgency is usually a sign, a red flag that you are into an amygdala takeover. It’s a signal to address any actual dangers facing you or turn down the noise in your head related to discomfort, insecurity or agitation. This is a huge task for many people, with and without ADHD. Anxiety, anger or hurt can seem like pressing dangers to our wellbeing and threaten our coping strategies. Practicing your ability to notice what’s going on in your body, in your mind and in your environment requires patience, insight and self-acceptance. These are skills which develop over time, sometimes a lifetime, for so many of us. Being compassionate with ourselves, our partners and our children is what’s called for–not the expectation of perfection. We want to foster a growth mindset, one that understands stumbling and focuses on regrouping instead of criticism or intolerance.

2. Pre-plan coping strategies for emotional triggers

When someone is triggered, they need to rely on a pre-planned strategy to help them get through those tough times. Try these tips:

1. Breathe:

Breathing sends a message to your amygdala to slow down and cools off the body’s alarm system. Try alternate nostril breathing, triangle breathing (inhale for 4, hold for 4, exhale for 6, pause empty) or belly breathing. Do any of these breathing techniques about 5 times at a pace that feels best for you.

2. Change your environment:

Sometimes you need to leave a situation to compose yourself or assess what is going on. A quick trip to the bathroom, stepping outside for a breath of fresh air, opening a window, getting a glass of water, taking a quick walk or breaking out some stretches or yoga can assist you in recalibrating. Maybe even consider giving or asking for a hug.

3. Create some go-to phrases to say to other people:

It’s much better to articulate that you are feeling distressed instead of blurting something out that you will later regret. As you’re reading this, what words come to mind that can summarize how you feel without oversharing or dumping? Here are some suggestions:

• • I’m not comfortable with the direction this is headed. Can we start over? 
  • I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed, let me get back to you.
  • Let’s pause for a moment and regroup.
  • I need to use the bathroom.
  • This is upsetting me. I’d like to settle for a minute before we continue.

4. Brainstorm soothing statements you can say to yourself:

When you talk back to the negative voices that perpetuate anger, anxiety or shame, you offer yourself compassion, reassurance and kindness. This both acknowledges your feelings and helps you settle down. Here are some examples:

• • It’s okay to feel unsure or uncomfortable.
  • I am rooting for me.
  • This feeling really hurts right now; it will pass if I can tolerate it instead of ignoring it.
  • I can notice my (anger, disappointment, concern or frustration) without acting on it.
  • I have been here before, and I have the skills and resources to manage this.
  • Being human means making mistakes, regrouping and learning from them.
  • I am calm; I am safe.
  • It’s okay to ask for help. 
  • I can feel my physical sensations, give them attention and allow them to change.

When you understand how strong emotions work in ADHD brains, see how big feelings influence thoughts and behaviors, and learn tools to comfort yourself, you don’t just tame your triggers; you learn to pivot from reacting to responding.

Read more blog posts:

• Tone of Voice Awareness in Neurodiverse Families: How to practice self-regulation in family conflicts
• ADHD, Emotional Regulation and Managing Family Conflict: Replacing Time-outs with Time-in or Time-apart
• Tips for Neurodiverse Social Communication: Engaging in more enjoyable and effective conversations

Watch on Dr. Saline’s YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/RrLFQk5X6Dk Handouts, Videos & More in Dr. Saline’s Store: https://drsharonsaline.com/product/whats-up-with-all-this-anger/ https://drsharonsaline.com/product/home-seminar/

With all of the frustration, disappointment and restriction children and teens with ADHD are feeling these days, it’s even harder for them to self-regulate at school or at home. They may lose their temper more quickly, say inappropriate things, and refuse requests to finish chores or stop gaming. How can you respond to these oppositional reactions with strategies beyond yelling, taking things away, or banishing them from your sight? What are some choices that promote stability in the home and connection in the parent-child relationship? My PAUSE program–Plan to Accept, Understand, Set Limits and Encourage–can help you and your child better connect, communicate and find solutions.

‘No’ – A familiar story

Recently, I was in my office with Kieran–an eighth grade boy who was complaining about being bored after school to his mom, Tara, and me. “There’s nothing to do except gaming, and you only let me do that for an hour. What else am I supposed to do?” His mom gently suggested going back to some activities that had previously interested him—guitar lessons, indoor soccer, swim team, improvisational theater classes. “No, no, no.” His mom turned to me and said: “I used to do this to my mom. She called it ‘Shoot ‘em up, and knock ‘em down.’ There’s never a right answer.” I instantly wondered if ‘No’ meant ‘Forget about it’ or ‘I’m not sure and need to think about it.’ Indoor soccer and theater were hard ‘No’s.’ Guitar and swimming were more of an ‘I’ll think about it.” I asked Kieran why he doesn’t just say that, and he shrugged, “I don’t know…I just can’t think about all that stuff at once.” Saying ‘No’ flat out like that gives him space to think about something without any pressure.

ADHD and oppositional reactions

With working memory and/or processing speed challenges, kids with ADHD often feel overwhelmed—emotionally, cognitively and/or socially. Biologically, they lack adequate amounts of dopamine and norepinephrine in their brains. This deficiency makes it difficult for people with ADHD to process and recall information efficiently and keep up with all of the activity around them. In addition, people with ADHD frequently struggle to articulate these mostly unconscious cognitive processes. What most kids tell me is that they simply feel flooded and agitated. They try to muddle through and manage these feelings at school or with friends. However, by the time they arrive home, they don’t feel obligated to hold it together any more. As Sal once told me, “I’m not going to be suspended from my family.” He feels safe enough with his caring parents to shut down and push boundaries. There’s also more flexibility in creating whatever space he needs to process information at a pace that works for his uniquely wired brain.

What ‘NO’ means to your child or teen

A ‘No’ might be a response to what your child or teen may grasp as a demand rather than a request. Before you investigate what ‘NO’ really means, reflect on how you ask your child to do something or engage them in a task. Invitations, doing something alongside them (being a body double) and noticing their efforts contribute to better cooperation. Find a calm moment and ask them about ‘NO.’ Take out your curiosity, and gather some information. Is saying ‘NO’ about setting limits, being contrary, slowing things down or something else? Maybe it’s a combination of things. Brainstorm alternatives to ‘No’ that include coming up with a few words or phrases to use when they need time to think about something. 

Preparing ahead for oppositional behaviors

Nobody likes meltdowns, explosions or arguments. Kids with ADHD have told me repeatedly that they feel bad about themselves after these outbursts, and many parents also regret what they’ve said or done. But, in moments of high emotion, people naturally stop listening and quickly move to reactivity. Instead of being surprised every time your youngster pushes back or refuses something, understand that these behaviors are a natural part of growing up and exploring independence. Expect that these incidents will occur, and rely on a strategy for when they do. It’s the resistance and the combativeness that wears families down and really exhausts parents. My PAUSE program—Plan to Accept Understand Set Limits and Encourage–assists you in creating that strategy. 

Responding to oppositional reactions with the PAUSE program:

‘Plan to Accept, Understand, Set Limits and Encourage’

1. Plan (Plan ahead with options):

Focus on making a plan to cope with the pattern of anger for yourself and your child rather than deal with its changing content. Otherwise, you’ll be playing Whack A Mole. In a quiet moment, make a list of what you can easily do to stay grounded. If you are dysregulated, you won’t be able to respond effectively or help your youngster calm down. Whether it’s going to the bathroom to collect yourself for a few minutes or getting a glass of water or opening a window, break up the action in a non-threatening way. This re-centering needs to be your initial reflexive step to slow down the fast-paced action. Once you’ve clarified this for yourself, sit with your child or teen and ask them what helps them regroup. Follow up by asking how much time they need for this. Write down their options, and post the list in their room or in the kitchen.

 2. Accept (Nurture and acknowledge):

Stop trying to convince your child or teen of anything. Rather, accept where you both are in a given moment. Remember, their listening stopped when they became activated, and they want to be seen and heard by you. Acknowledge what they are saying with reflective listening: “I heard you say this, is that right?” When they feel that you are paying attention–instead of correcting them for cursing at you or justifying why you called the school about their F in English–they will start to settle. It may be tense and uncomfortable, but you can do this.  You’ve probably handled a lot of other unpleasant situations before!

3. Understand (Practice compassion):

As tough as it can be, empathy is what’s called for when kids, especially neurodivergent kids, are distressed. Kids and teens with ADHD often feel overwhelmed. Their thinking brains and weaker executive functioning skills simply cannot manage their heightened emotions. They are acting out because they lack the resources to do anything different in those moments. Neurodivergent kids need caring adults to dig deep and find some compassion, rather than exploding about how they should get their act together. When a child is resistant, oppositional and intransigent, many parents feel desperate to regain authority and establish stability. Parents often do this by taking things away from their kids. But while punishments may offer short-term relief, they don’t bring long-term success. Avoid saying things like, “I’m taking away your phone for 3 days. You can’t talk to me that way.” Turn it around and say, “You have not earned the privilege of using your phone with that language. When you can go for 3 days without cursing, you’ll get it back. That’s the agreement we have.” Relying on appropriate incentives is what shifts negativity to cooperation.

4. Set limits (Clear rules with family meetings to foster collaboration):

The goal is to help kids with ADHD develop their executive functioning skills for self-regulation, engaging in interpersonal connections, and achieving goals. It’s a natural part of living to become angry, to want to get your own way, and to avoid disappointment. However, it’s not okay to be aggressive about these. Punishment doesn’t teach any lasting skills, and it rules by fear. We want our kids to be motivated to make other choices. Logical consequences, on the other hand, allow you to set limits and use meaningful incentives as motivators. You place ‘have-to’s’ before ‘want-to’s.’ The trick is staying steady in the face of your child or teen’s displeasure, and following through. In a family meeting or a quiet moment, make collaborative agreements about actions and words that are unwelcome.

5. Encourage (Focus on the present and moving forward):

Once the storm has passed, focus on the present moment. What needs to happen NOW to move beyond its wreckage? This is not a time to teach any lessons. The situation is still too raw for your child or teen, and such a conversation may trigger the outburst all over again. You may want to talk about your upset and let them know how they have messed up. But, will this serve them to learn the skills they need and strengthen your relationship? They need encouragement rather than blame at this moment. Talk about the next move to get on with things instead. Later that day, or some time tomorrow, casually wonder about the take-aways from what happened. Was there anything each of you regretted? How would you like to deal with that type of behavior in the future? These questions open up conversation, explore options and validate positive engagement. Be patient with yourself and your family as you incorporate this model into your daily lives. Everybody has a shorter fuse right now so it may take longer to get this going. That’s okay. It’s one step at a time!

Read more blog posts:

• Cooling Down Conversations in Neurodiverse Families: De-escalate and do-over with ‘WAIT-Now’ and ‘Take Back of the Day’
• Negative Memory Bias and ADHD: Tips to Help Kids and Youth with ADHD Remember the Positives
• Tone of Voice Awareness in Neurodiverse Families: How to practice self-regulation in family conflicts

Watch on YouTube:

• ADHD and Oppositional Defiance (ADDitude Mag Q&A with Dr. Saline)
• Anger Management with ADHD (ADDitude Mag Q&A with Dr. Saline)
• How to Get Your Teens to Open Up (WWLP 22 News interview with Dr. Saline)